TP in Tax Law - 1929 - Read about a 1929 tax case in Scotland involving a million rolls of toilet paper.
The
Toilet Paper World website sells paper products and cleaning products for
offices and homes. They have compiled a pretty thorough resource of the history
of toilet paper and manufacture (by taking info from manufacturers' sites). We take exception to one bit of historical misinformation that gets repeated across the web. The first roll of toilet paper was NOT introduced by Scott in 1890. There is evidence in magazine advertising as well as other artifacts that shows perforated rolls of toilet paper as early as 1883 and I suspect that the first rolls may predate that by at least a year.
Scott Tissue
PLEASE NOTE: Many sites will cite tp history and there are many contradictions. Please proceed accordingly with your research
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: History Excerpt (Before There was Toilet paper)
This history comes from the very unusual (and fun) book RE/Search
Guide to Bodily Fluids by Paul Spinrad. It is published by RE/Search publications
(San Francisco, CA, 1994). The information is not completely accurate, but gives
an approximate idea of the practice.
Before posting it here, I received at least 2 inquiries a week. (So, if you're
doing a paper, make sure you quote sources.)
" ... it is currently believed that the original material used for cleaning
was leaves and sticks.
Of course, where you lived help determine the material of choice. Mussel shells
were very popular in coastal regions prior to toilet paper's popularity (approx.1900).
If you were lucky enough to be raised on the Hawaiian islands, you may have
used good old coconut shells. If you were born into royalty, like Louis XIV,
you would have used wool or lace for added comfort.
In India and the Arab world, the most popular tool to use today (not that I
have witnessed this) is the hand - the left hand to be specific. Of course,
they cleanse their hands after this dirty deed. Many Arabs consider the Western
practice of using paper to be disgusting - they feel that you always leave a
residue by following this practice. They can't see how paper can actually get
you perfectly clean. Some historians consider this the reason why we shake with
our right hands - because traditionally the left hand was the dirty hand!
Islamic tradition prescribes that you should wipe with stones or clods of earth,
rinse with water, and finally dry with linen cloth. Pious men actually carry
clods of earthin their turbans and carry small pitchers of water solely for
this purpose.
In ancient Rome, all public toilets had a sponge attached to the end of a stick
which soaked in a bucket of brine (salty water). The rich used wool and rosewater.
During the late Middle Ages, the French invented the bidet for rinsing of both
sexes (clearly, the original models did not have modern plumbing). During WWI,
British and American troops found these devices in the brothels that they frequented,
leading them to assume that they were only used by women for vaginal douching.
In other words, men no longer use them.
The material of choice among colonial America was corn cobs. When daily newspapers
became
commonplace in the 1700's, paper became the material of choice (I guess that
one could say that Gutenberg's printing press caused the toilet paper revolution).
Lord Chesterfield (1694-1773) wrote in a letter to his son that one should always
carry with them a cheap copy of the Latin poets so that he would have something
educational to read while on the pot, as well as having a good use for each
page after reading it (This is not a quote, just a story). This lead to a major
problem in England - the landscape was littered with paper - they didn't have
modern sewers to take the stuff away from our sight.
In the late 19th century, the Sears catalog became popular in rural America.
People simply hung it up on a nail and had a free supply of 100's of pages of
absorbent, uncoated paper. Corn cobs were still holding as a strong second place
contender, however. Use of the Sears catalog declined in the 1930's due to the
fact that they started printing on glossy, clay-coated paper. Many people complained
to Sears about this glossy paper (Can you imagine writing a letter to Sears:
Dear Sir, I want to register a complaint about your new glossy catalog paper.
It is no longer soft and absorbent...).
The first actual paper produced for wiping was in England in 1880. They were
individual squares sold in boxes, not rolls. This paper was very coarse - the
type the British prefer today. Americans like the soft, fluffy type, which was
introduced in 1907. The original American product was sort of like crepe paper,
if you remember that stuff from kindergarten."
To make this background information complete, we need some statistics. I should
warn you that these statistics are a bit grotesque and are based on a sample
population of 106 people.
Here we go:
The average tear is 5.90 sheets of TP.
44% wipe from front to back from behind their backs.
60% look at the paper after they wipe.
42% fold, 33% crumple, 8% do both fold and crumple, 6% wrap it around their
hands.
50% say that they have wiped with leaves.
8% have wiped with their hands.
2% have wiped with money!
3) posted on 11/17/03 at 02:51 AM
For examples of early pieces
and other oddities:
2) posted on 2/11/05 at 06:52 PM
you wanna know sumthin funny? before toilet papr, some places used corn cobs.
others...like in ancient rome, they used a sponge on the end of a stick soaked
in salt water. if this was used now-a-days...dont u think it would give the
phrase "wrong end of the stick" a whole differnt perspective and meaning?
hahahhahaha
3) posted on 2/11/05 at 06:53 PM
Actually, in the mideast people considered it proper to "wipe" with
your left hand...before toilet paper was invented... why do you think people
greet others by shaking hands with your RIGHT hand? huh..think about it!
4) rich posted on 2/25/05 at 01:28 AM
That might be a factor for shaking with the right hand, but the other reason
is certainly because that's how you know your guest is not concealing a knife.
In latin the word for left as it would be for left-handed is "sinister.
5) posted on 9/30/05 at 02:08 PM
although the 'dagger theory' is one explanation for the right hand being offered,
the full story is much deeper-both greeks and romans believed that the left
side of the body housed evil spirits; thus they covered their left side with
a toga, and offered the right hand so as not to pay someone a 'left-handed compliment'
by offering them a symbolically evil handshake. by the way, the right side of
the body was referred to as the dexter, or dextrous side, while the left was
the sinistral, or sinister side.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Does anyone no who invented toilet paper
1) Princess43123 posted Mar 14 2001
2) Rich responded
"Well, they say Necessity is the mother of invention. It's more likely
that the use of paper for wiping was an evolutionary process rather than an
invention. So it's unlikely that one person will turn up as the inventor, although,
it wouldn't surprise me to one day discover that someone did patent it.
3) Response from marti Mar 14, 2001
well, i guess they got tired of using leaves, but regular paper hurt too bad.
the first documented mention of toilet paper was in the mid to late 1700's.
Date: Mar 27, 2001 on 10:01 p.m.
4) ladybug responded
Joseph C. Gayetty from the U.S. is credited for inventing toilet paper. (see
other posts)
5) posted on 2/10/04 at 04:54 AM by anon
Joseph Gayetty was the inventor in the US but the real inventor was the chinese.
in 1391 AD for the Emperors purpose only. So the chinese invented Toilet paper
not Joseph sorry but he brought it over to the US so its ok i guess......
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Gayetty - the inventor
Subject: Relative of TP Inventor?
1) From Joe gayetty
Greetings:
Joseph C. Gayetty of New York City invented toilet paper in 1857. He sold it
in packs of 500 sheets for 50 cents.
Best regards,
Joseph Gayetty
Date: May 31, 2001 on 09:47 a.m.
2) Reply from Rich:
I also read that he had his name printed on each sheet. Reportedly it was an
idea ahead of its time - that it was not a successful product at the time. Apparently
people were not used to the idea that they should waste a perfectly clean piece
of paper.
the following from the library of Congress.
The greatest necessity of the age! Gayetty's medicated paper for the water-closet.
Read and learn what is in ordinary paper ... J. C. Gayetty N. Y. Barton &
son Print, III Fulton street [n. d.].
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bibliographic information
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Greatest Necessity of the Age!
GAYETTY'S
Medicated Paper,
FOR THE WATER-CLOSET.
Read and Learn What is in Ordinary Paper.
Click here to see this in its original form!
Many people have wooed their own destruction, physical and mental, by neglecting
to pay attention to ordinary matters. Few persons would believe that a beautiful
enameled card contains a quantum of arsenic, with other chemicals, which, if
used to any extent, will communicate poison, and that fatally. All printing
or writing papers contain either Oil of Vitriol, Chloride of Lime. Potash, Soda
Ash, White Clay, Lime, Ultramine or Oxalic Acid. White paper contains either
some or all of these fearful poisons, while colored papers, (excepting Gayetty's,
which is a pearl color, and made to be as pure as snow,) embody portions of
Prussiate of Potash, Bichromate of Potash, Muriatic Acid, Prussian Blue, Aqua-Fortis,
Copperas, and a variety of other articles equally dangerous and pernicious,
but too numerous to be catalogued in our little circular. Physicians owe it
to the rising generation to caution all against touching or tasting such deleterious
and death-dealing material. Printed paper, everybody knows is rank poison to
tender portions of the body. Individuals would not put printers ink in their
mouths, as one of its ingredients is Lamp Black--yet they have no hesitation
in allowing themselves and children to lay in a plentiful crop of piles--or
aggravating them if they exist--by applying that ink to the tenderest part of
the body corporate, if we except the eye. How much cheaper in every respect
is it to use a paper made of the purest material and medicated with the greatest
care. Such is Gayetty's Medicated Paper. For sale by
J. RUSSELL SPALDING,
27 Tremont Street, Boston.
Look for the inventor's name water-marked in each sheet of the genuine, thus:
J C GAYETTY
N Y
BARTON & SON Print, 111 Fulton street.
3) Posted by anon
I had also read somewhere that the Chinese created the toilet paper. In the
year 1391ad. A man named Lun Tsai had created the paper in 105ad then kept it
a sercet until 751ad when some papermaking people got caught by Arabs. And then
the paper spreaded through out the world. (Just in case you wanted more info.)
4) another added
i heard he had his named stamped also, so you were then wiping with Joseph Gayetty
5) T.P. Man posted on 3/29/05 at 08:56 PM
Dear Rich,
I heard that he sold TP in packs of 500 for .50 a pack. Where they single sheets,
or on a roll.
from,
TPMan
6) Rich's reply
Hey TP Man,
They were most definitely sold in single sheets. A few years back I was able
to buy a package on ebay. Though his name is not on the individual sheets, but
on the package. I'm still looking for the ones with his name on them.
Rich
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
what about Walter Alcock?
Query: I know that Joseph Gayetty was the inventor, but I also know taht Alcock
tryed to introduce toilet paper after Gayetty's attempt failed. So what's the
deal with Alcock how come he is hard to find info on?
Answer posted by thersites
Click here to see the original site this info came from
In 1857, the New Yorker Joseph C. Gayetty sent to the market which he denominated
Paper Medicado Gayetty, under the advertising call "a completely pure article
for its hygiene". Thus the modern hygienic paper was born, that at that
time consisted of leaves of Manila paper without whitening, noticeable to the
water with the last name of the inventor. Nevertheless, the commercial success
did not accompany that initiative, and the hygienic paper of Gayetty had a precarious
sale.
In England, the manufacturer Walter Alcock tried to send his own hygienic paper
in 1879; instead of making it in loose leaves he made it in rolls of leaves
to be taken, separated by lines of perforation. Nevertheless, its initiative
hit the English puritanismo of the time, to which it did not seem advisable
to see similar product him in the shelves of the stores.
The insolvent attempts of Gayetti and Alcock were, finally, surpassed by the
American brothers Edward and Clarence Scott, who, thanks to an aggressive and
effective advertising campaign, took the honor to obtain the commercial triumph
of rolls of hygienic paper, introducing to the market a mark that still today
is commercialized actively.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
First Rolls
Posted 10/16/97
According to The Finishing Net, a resource for paper manufacturers, bathroom
tissue was first produced on rolls in 1871.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Size Matters
1) Rich posted on 7/27/02 at 12:38 AM
The following exchange was asked on a bb for people involved in paper manufacturing.
: Do any of the readers of this forum know why toilet paper is cut to the width
that it is in the U.S. (Maybe different outside U.S. don't really know.)"
: If anyone has an insite, I'd love to hear it. Believe it or not, I get various
queries about once a week.
: Thanks,
: Rich Newman
2) Mr Rich Newman
Is not true what you say. In several countries the toilet tissue rolls width
is not cut in the same width that is in the USA.
USA used to cut in 11cm width. In European countries and latinamerica the tissue
rolls have only 10cm (less of 4 inches)So you have to be careful to buy the
machine you need.
Bye.
Horacio
3) Posted by brian sharp on September 21, 2001:
The width of a roll often changes in the uk this is because of different companies
making more money using less paper if a log is 3 metres long & the roll
110mm wide then you make the roll 100mm wide every 10 cuts you get an extra
roll p.s I'm suprised you haven't noticed the size of the centre.
4) posted on 2/17/03 at 05:30 AM
This is an interesting discussion about size of the roll of toilet paper. Its
not surprising to me that standardization is based on the manufacturing process.
But in USA especially, the standardization would have to be more significant
than that, since the holders are made to fit the standardized width and no other
options are offered. I don't think there's very much option in the size (diameter)
of the roll either. Seems to me all the cardboard roll liners are the same diameter
and have been that way since i can remember.
So there are two questions on the board:
IN USA, who what when where how and why was the present width of toilet paper
determined, how was it standardized, and how is the standardization enforced?
If other countries can vary the width how does the USA protect against imports
of varying widths?
IN USA, who what when where and how and why was the standard diameter of the
roll decided? What is the standard? How is it enforced? Does the diameter vary
outside the USA?
This is an interesting discussion. Hope you keep it up.
Thanks
Guy Knoll
Dallas, Texas
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
1) Rich 3/23/03
Just saw this in an article. Doesn't state the source other than to say "one
industry expert" estimates or annual toilet paper use at 70 rolls each.
That's 1 1/3 rolls a week each. Seems like a lot to me, but that's obviously
an average.
2) posted on 7/6/04 at 04:00 AM
That seems like someone in the industry is trying to get consumers to buy more.
Between me and my two daughters, we use about three or four rolls a month. However,
whenever my cats get in the restroom, they use nearly the whole roll. I try
to encourage them to use the litter box.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The Great Toilet Paper Shortage story is from the book Uncle John's Bathroom
Reader by the Bathroom Readers' Institute (The Bathroom Readers' Press, Berkeley,
CA, 1995, pages 217-218). It's actually a reprint of a TV Guide article from
1974.
Blame it all on Johnny Carson.
There have been shortages of many things throughout history - oil, rubber, coffee,
medicine, and so on. Yet, one of the most interesting shortages - the shortage
of toilet paper - was one that should never have occurred.
It actually all started as a joke. Johnny Carson was doing his typical NBC Tonight
Show monologue on December 19, 1973.
Heeeere's Johnnnnnny....
Of course, Johnny, like most talk show hosts, had a staff that helped write
his monologue. His writers had heard earlier in the day about a Wisconsin congressman
named Harold Froehlich. Froelich claimed that the federal government was falling
behind in getting bids to supply toilet paper and that "The United States
may face a serious shortage of toilet tissue within a few months".
His writers decided to include a joke based on this quote in Carson's monologue.
He said "You know what's disappearing from the supermarket shelves? Toilet
paper. There's an acute shortage of toilet paper in the United States."
Too bad they couldn't see the consequence of this statement. You may not be
aware if you are young, but the early 1970's was a time of shortages - oil in
particular. The next morning, many of the 20 million television viewers ran
to the supermarket and bought all the toilet paper they could find. By noon,
most of the stores were out of stock! Stores tried to ration the stuff, but
they couldn't keep up with demand.
Johnny Carson went on the air several nights later and explained that there
was no shortage and apologized for scaring the public. Unfortunately, people
saw all the empty shelves in the stores, so the stampede continued.
Scott Paper showed video of their plants in full production to the public and
asked them to stay calm - there was no shortage. The video was of little help.
The panic fed itself and continued.
They finally got the shelves restocked three weeks later and the shortage was
over. It is the only time in American history that the consumer actually created
a major shortage (I don't think that the "shortage" of Barbie or Power
Ranger dolls at Christmas time could be classified as a real shortage!).
And to think that it all started as a joke.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
TP composition is a trade secret
Rich posted
Companies such as Scott, keep their recipes for toilet paper a secret.
For instance, what proportion of hard wood to soft wood pulp. Hard wood? You
wouldn't want to admit that you use it when you're trying to sell soft toilet
paper. But then maybe a chemist will step forward and explain the propeties
of lignin in toilet paper.
How would that compare to papyrus or rice paper? If it's top secret, we may
never know!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
oval toilet paper rolls
posted on 5/8/05 at 01:07 AM
This from Art Holman ...
"In 1960, stationed aboard USS Sufolk County, LST 1173, I learned
that Navy TP was pressed into an oval before packing. Seems a huge amount of
space would be wasted by the empty holes in sufficient TP to supply 8,000 to
10,000 men for 6 months."
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
How does it hang?!
1) Mike posted on 1/18/03 at 06:22 PM
Ok...I am enlisting the help of the interested world in finding out the answer
to the question: is a roll of toilet paper correctly installed with the paper
against the wall (from the bottom), or out into the room (over the top)? My
new girlfriend and I are having a friendly contest in finding out both popular
opinion and any authoritative answer. It seems to me that if it hangs against
the wall, it is unobtrusive and neat; while I can't think of any reason to have
it hanging out into the room, and I think it draws attention to a feature of
the bathroom that really should be politely available, but not the focus!
2) Rich posted on 1/28/03 at 02:56 AM
The jury is still out, but I've talked with a toilet paper designer, and from
the manufacturers perspective, the roll should feed to the outside. Otherwise,
you'll find that the design is upside down (and inside out?). Having learned
that, I have observed it to be true.
However, since most people overlook that issue anyway, it's not necessarily
going to change many minds.
3) posted on 8/19/03 at 01:17 AM
I worked for 10 months At Steven and Thompson Paper mill, in Middle Falls, New
York. I made the cardboard cores on the core machine. The paper roll up and
over the top of the roll, so the design will show. Ya heard it from a toilet
paper expert!
4) posted on 12/29/03 at 06:23 AM
What do the toilet paper people know? Just because they print a design on it
that can only be properly viewed when the tongue unrolls from the front doesn't
mean a thing. Two reasons why it should always unroll from the back: it's more
AESTHETIC that way (it looks better); and if you own a puppy the puppy can't
playfully unroll it with his little paw when it comes down from the back. When
it unrolls from the front it announces its purpose -- and who wants to be reminded
of that every time you walk into a bathroom! Let's have some standards!
5) Mad Mac posted on 2/18/04 at 04:04 PM
I looked to the finest hotels to unravel this tissue issue. You can spend $300
a night and the toilet paper will be on the outside with a neat point. That
should be an authoritative answer.
As for your puppy, consider yourself fortunate that he is toilet trained.
6) posted on 2/11/05 at 06:50 PM
it's supposed to come over the top and hand towards you. it's actually considered
impolite to have it come underneath, because it is hits the wall that causes
the paper to become unclean, then using it to 'wipe' can be hazardous.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Strange Question
1) Can anyone please tell me what Jesus would have used for toilet paper?
2) Rich's response:
The closest I can come to helping you is from the History excerpt mentioned
elsewhere in this forum.
The islamic and middle eastern references would possibly apply to the Jewish
people as well. If you can find any biblical scholars from the old testament,
that would be the closest you'd get to corroborating, since Jesus was practicing
Judaism ...
3) posted on 5/14/03 at 07:13 PM
During the time of Jesus, Romans used a sponge placed on a small stick to scrub
themselves - often times public toilets would have a common gutter in which
to rinse them off. Pretty nasty if you ask me.
4) posted on 2/11/05 at 06:48 PM
personally, i think he used his hand too i mean, what else did they have - 'palms'?
The following list arrived in my email inbox and it has many inconsistencies and to attribution as to source - if this is a copyrightable list, I apologize to the originator and will certainly remove on request. Also, I have edited it down.